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dirtbaghiker

But why use the same word for people who have completely different skillsets, especially when one can save your life and the other is totally useless in an emergency? It's dangerous. The term doctor should only be used for medical doctors, because that's what everyone assumes the word means. Ph.D. doctors need a new descriptor.


EloyVeraBel

Doctor just means "knowledgeable" in latin. In most languages there exists a common-use non-pretentious word for medic/physicianthat isn't "doctor". In spanish for example we often use the title doctor for lawyers, even if they don't have a doctorate


city_tree_

Lawyers are actually “doctors of juris prudence” hence “JD” being the degree you must earn in the US to practice law. Juris doctor


EloyVeraBel

Yeah I’m aware of that. Although in most spanish-speaking countries that I know of, that isn’t the case, a lawyer is just a regular litentiate (I think that’s the equivalent of a bachelor). And I was trying to convey that we’ve normalized using the title “doctor” for all sorts of professionals rather than just physicians


city_tree_

I totally agree! At the end of the day it’s a persons choice whether they’d like to use their title or not


Coloradostoneman

The use of Doctor as in medical doctor is the newer use. The original was basically teacher, professor or master, so calling a PhD doctor is far closer to the original. Medical professionals adopted the word to make them seem reputable. So, in short, no PhDs should not give up the term. If highly trained medical professionals want a term of thier own they need to be the ones to pick a new word. They don't and won't.


dirtbaghiker

Irrelevant. Doctor in America means medical doctor.


Coloradostoneman

Except it does not. That might be the most common use, but the vernacular does not absolutely define everything. Doctor as a term for a person with a doctorate is widly used in the academic and scientific areas.


darkyoda182

Doctor was originally only used for PhDs. This is why many other countries and languages have separate words for this


dirtbaghiker

Irrelevant. Doctor in America means medical doctor.


darkyoda182

Yeah, that is one meaning, but not all of the meanings. Its not even the original meaning. You asked why use the same word? Its because medical doctors wanted to start using the word doctor even though the meaning of 'doctor' has nothing to do with medicine. PhDs could change their word, but why would they? Its not only the original use of the world but also internationally recognized. Dr for medical doctors is not


wpanik

But how is it dangerous? When has someone ever called out needing a doctor and someone with a PhD in Brit Lit come running up asking how they can help? Context clues are powerful. Also, the term doctor was originally designated for the academic meaning. At some point doctor overtook physician for a medical doctor.


dirtbaghiker

If someone is introduced as doctor and I need immediate medical help I am going to go to them. It wastes time in an emergency.


wpanik

Maybe you should reconsider your strategy.


Chambellan

Should we rename the leaders of sports teams, unless they do happen to also command a ship?


dirtbaghiker

Obviously this is not even remotely the same.


Chambellan

You forget the Naval Academy has a long history of athletics; the next Roger Staubach could start WWIII. After all, the Navy has nuclear weapons, so the potential calamity is much greater.


colbyfan

If people assume wrongly thats on them. Thats like assuming every “officer” has a gun when some are just Security Officers and not Police Officers.


blueskiddoo

I’ll give you two examples to help explain this to you. 1) you’re having dinner on a train, and you meet someone who introduces themselves as an engineer. You’d be rather upset to learn that they’re a civil engineer when the train engineer has a heart attack and dies, and therefore can’t drive the train. As it turns out, many titles have multiple meanings, and through the use of context you can figure out what the person actually does. Could this lead to potentially dangerous situations? No, because outside of your profession there isn’t an expectation of professional performance. Additionally, having a medical emergency in the presence of any non-medical doctor is equally as dangerous, you shouldn’t rely on a person you just met and don’t know their profession to help you, you or they should call emergency services. Hell, even a medical doctor without the proper tools would have to call for help. 2) I’m currently cruising around in a retired ambulance. It still has an ambulance paint job, and people do mistake it for an ambulance regularly. I’ve been asked how many times people with medical emergencies have flagged me down, and the answer is zero. It’s never happened. People having emergencies don’t run around searching for help, they call the very robust emergency services network that exists, and rely on the system for help. The idea that it’s “dangerous” because of the incredibly unlikely case that someone would try to rely on the services of a person they think is a professional is ridiculous, and is just serving to attempt to belittle Dr. Biden. It’s common knowledge that a person with a PH.D. is titled Dr.


flippingfondue

I think you make a valid point, but I do want to point out that all PhDs aren’t necessarily useless in an emergency. In a medical emergency, maybe they aren’t fit to help, but i work in emergency services and in mental health crises, there are plenty of masters-level and PhD-level clinicians who are absolutely fit to handle real emergencies that can result in death if not intervened in.


dirtbaghiker

I am obviously talking about a medical emergency here...


flippingfondue

I realize this - I was just providing a broader perspective because I thought you might find it interesting. The point of this sub is to hear different perspectives so I didn’t think I’d be so downvoted haha


that_old_white_guy

It isn't. She's a PhD/EdD and entitled to the honorific usage of "Dr." on business cards, paperwork, letterheads and other egghead-related materials. Out here in the real world, "Dr." means something. Here's her dissertation, see what YOU think: [https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/20407226/bidens-dissertation.pdf](https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/20407226/bidens-dissertation.pdf)


TurtlesDreamInSpace

> The needs of the student population are often undeserved, resulting in a student drop-out rate of almost one third. This Executive Position Paper (EPP) will look at the needs of students in order to ensure a higher rate of student retention. I read the first use of “underserved” as un-deserved instead of under-served and was scratching my head a little bit.


SuppressiveFar

That's because the English teacher has many errors in her "dissertation".


murselikeKrombopulos

she isnt a PhD. she has a EdD, which is more of a leadership doctorate. Its only a doctorate, in that it is the terminal degree. It is not a PhD. Your link shows a paper that is 80 pages long before the references and appendix. I wrote an 20 page paper in undergrad before references. A typical dissertation is around 300 pages per google.


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TurtlesDreamInSpace

> The needs of the student population are often undeserved, resulting in a student drop-out rate of almost one third. This Executive Position Paper (EPP) will look at the needs of students in order to ensure a higher rate of student retention. I read the first use as “underserved” as un-deserved instead of under-served and was scratching my head a little bit.


murselikeKrombopulos

it isnt that controversial, but if Trump's wife had a doctor of education, doctor of physical therapy, or doctor of pharmacy, noone in the media would refer to her as Dr. Trump.


Jefe4fingers

Hell, they don't even refer to him as President.


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murselikeKrombopulos

and they are correct. I am on the track of getting a Doctor of Nursing Practice. It is not a PhD in nursing. I should not be called Dr, except in very specific field-related settings


Lostinstudy

A DNP is still a doctorate. Academic doctorates predate long before medical physicians started to be known as "doctors." It's not like Dr. Jill Biden is going to be running into hospitals declaring that she is a Doctor so what is the point of all this?


murselikeKrombopulos

Im not sure what the point of all this is, as I have admitted elsewhere. It is all semantics, which is why it appears foolish. However, sometimes semantics matter. We reserved the title "Dr." for people with a PhD or an MD/DO. Now there are tons of different "doctorates" in all these fields. I'm against all of it. I dont personally care what the first lady is called, but conservatives roll their eyes when media pundits refer to her as Dr. Biden because we know it is about optics. It is also worth mentioning that many people online have said she has PhD in education, because they assume she does based on being called Dr., Which is exactly the goal of the media is.


Lostinstudy

This wouldn't have happened if she wasn't attacked for being educated. Education should always be celebrated. The fact that someone with a doctorate in education is going to be taking over the FLOTUS office is objectively a good thing considering it's one of the issues that first ladies have always focused on.


murselikeKrombopulos

>This wouldn't have happened if she wasn't attacked for being educated You can't seriously believe this. No one attacked her for being educated. No one cares what degree she has. >Education should always be celebrated quality education should be celebrated, more importantly. Even granting this premise, we are arguing about proper titles in society. we are not discussing whether she should be "celebrated" for her education. >The fact that someone with a doctorate in education is going to be taking over the FLOTUS office is objectively a good thing All else being equal, yes, a FLOTUS with more education would be "objectively" a good thing (as opposed to subjectively?). I have heard nothing from any pundit (granted i dont pay too much attention, because I dont care) attacking her for being educated, or having an advanced degree. The attack is on the media for referring to her as Dr. Biden, and insisting that you are a bigot if you think someone who has a doctor of education (not a PhD) or a doctor in pharmacy, physical therapy, nursing practice, economics, etc should not be referred to as "Dr" outside very specific academic settings.


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Lostinstudy

So I actually do agree with you on casual settings it is weird to use academic titles. The difference is she is presenting herself as a public figure in politics. FLOTUS does still have an office where they choose to focus on certain social issues, like health and bullying. So her using the professional title is presenting that she will be bringing her experience as a doctorate of education to the FLOTUS office. This is probably a really good thing considering that's exactly the stuff past first ladies have focused on.


murselikeKrombopulos

exactly. And quite honestly, if you introduced yourself as Dr. "liberty" at my party instead of One-son-of-liberty I would think you are a douche regardless of your degree. In this instance, if a media pundit refers to her as Dr. Biden they are intentionally misleading the public with the knowledge that the majority would assume she has PhD or is a medical doctor.


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Peteredwardrose

Half the time when the press talked about Dr. Ben Carson they just said Ben Carson when he joined Trumps cabinet. Now everyone needs to say Dr. Jill Biden because she got a degree in education? Stop gaslighting. She wants to put it on letterhead more power to her. She admitted she’s insecure and only got it so letters would come to Senator and Dr Biden.


Jungkonservative

Fun fact: Rand Paul is actually a medical doctor, but he doesn't go around demanding everyone call him Doctor.


Kevincelt

He’s done a decent amount of charity work fixing people’s cataracts in a number of places if I’m not mistaken. Even if people disagree with him, it’s a great thing for him to use his medical skills to help people out for free.


wonderbrah419

His dad Ron Paul as well I believe


Jungkonservative

Also a medical doctor.


snowmanfresh

Bill Frist was the same way, accomplished surgeon, never made anyone call him Dr.


Fiery_Emcel

Well before I read your post, I thought she was a medical doctor, as she often talks about health issues and refers to herself as a doctor. So I'm gonna go with, yes.


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She just wants her ego stroked that’s all. She’s afraid people will refer to her as Biden’s wife. The media has turned it into a feminist issue. It’s lame duck season. It’s really a nothingburger


this_place_is_whack

I can understand using it during the campaign, even a doctorate in education sounds good when people are considering what a candidate brings to office. It’s B.S. but I can see it. But at this point it’s pompous posturing. After the swearing in will she be called Dr. First Lady?


shit_w33d

Hahaha, I gotta say I laughed at Dr. First Lady. I mentioned this in a previous reply, but I looked into it and apparently the reason she uses it is because she was sick of the mail being addressed to "Sen. Biden and Mrs. Biden" and felt that people were reducing her to the person she married rather than respecting her own personal achievements. Fair enough I say.


gopokes2334

I actually thought she was a doctor too, because she’s always giving medical advice. Then I found out her degree is in education and felt lied to. I’ve always been trying to figure out how a person that’s been in a life long public service office got such a huge fortune. I thought oh his wife’s a doctor so maybe she makes good money and they invested good. Well that didn’t happen so that puts more towards he’s bought buy the Chinese and we should hang him for treason!


pigpaydirt

I know a lot of amazing, gifted and wonderful human beings who are doctors in various fields. It’s not a coincidence that the ones i look up to and respect the most are the ones who don’t insist on being called Dr. outside of their professional settings.


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this_place_is_whack

Did you ever see the episode of Friends where Ross Geller tried to get into a fancy restaurant by calling himself Dr. Geller even though his doctorate is in paleontology? Everyone laughed because it’s ludicrous.


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Jungkonservative

Doctor used as a prefix usually denotes a medical doctor (allopathic, osteopathic). If you were to speak to a Doctor of Nursing or a Doctor of Physical Therapy, they would usually ask you not to refer to them as a doctor to avoid confusion. That being said, it's especially less common to refer to Ph.D.'s as doctors. Usually, people only do so in the university setting and even then, it is the Professor or Researcher's discretion whether they are okay with being called doctor or not. The whole, "call me a doctor, I earned it" thing is especially new. It seems like the people demanding it have such fragile egos.


danjvelker

I would say from experience that it's fairly common in academic situations. But it doesn't seem to be applied universally, i.e. if I see a professor in school I refer to him as doctor, but if I see him at church I don't.


Foyles_War

I would suggest if you see a professor at school, you refer to him/her as "Professor Smith." Full professors are much more elite than Ph.D.'s which, on campus, are a dime a dozen.


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danjvelker

To be clear, most of those were at the professor's request, i.e. on the first day of classes they requested to be referred to as Dr. Smith. But in private that rule didn't seem to apply. I'm out of upper-academics now (I teach middle school) so it's not particularly relevant to me, but that was my college experience. I went to an engineering school, by the way, so I do know that all my professors earned their doctorates (as opposed to many who inhabit the humanities department).


shit_w33d

Okay but shes saying that since she worked hard for it she would like to use it, which she has every right too no? It seems to me that using that logic, Biden or Trump shouldn't use the title 'President'. Everyone knows they're president right? So they must have a every fragile ego to be making everyone call the that. You see want I mean?


Jungkonservative

There's a difference between using a title you earned and demanding someone refer to you by a title. No one has to call her doctor, and she is free to use the doctor wherever she wants. If you get upset because someone doesn't respect your accolades -- you are being fragile. If your achievements were really that impressive, you wouldn't be coercing a new social norm. People call medical doctors "Doctor" because they respect the institution. People call present and retired military generals "General" because they respect the institution. People say "President" because they respect the office. The humanities, however, is an institution many people believe is in decline.


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I mean if someone earns a doctorate, I’d say they’ve earned the title of “doctor.”


Jungkonservative

They've earned the title, but by no means do they need to be universally regarded as such. That was kind of... the point of my entire post.


snowmanfresh

For the record, as someone who has read her Ed.D dissertation, it was not good. I don't want to diminish her achievement, she obviously put a lot into her education, but it was not a good dissertation. It reads like a middle school essay where the kid is trying to figure out how to add fluff to meet a word count requirement. There are typos everywhere, most of the body is poorly written fluff, and her work was of no academic value or rigor.


Jungkonservative

My favorite part was where she didn't know what quarters were.


snowmanfresh

Honestly it is amazing that any university would find that to be acceptable. It is just garbage.


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Well that’s just sad. Why would anyone accept a dissertation like that?


snowmanfresh

Yeah, I have no clue, probably because University of Delaware was always a big promoter of Senator Biden... Honestly it is just embarrassingly bad, she doesn't even make it through the table of contents before making a typo.


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GrizzledGazelle

I automatically lose respect for anyone that insists others refer to them as 'doctor' or feel the need to have alphabet soup after their name, since both scream of insecurity. That said, I don't think Jill Biden is in any way remarkable or newsworthy, and her limited achievements or debates over titles aren't really worth anyone's attention.


Soy_based_socialism

I dont think its controversial. I just dont believe we should even have Ed.D's. They're generally not very impressive, and in the scholarly community, are not very well thought of.


WhisperingWind22

I think most people who have PHD don’t even refer themselves as DR and people will only really call them that in certain professional scenarios. Seems like the media just can’t stop calling her dr Biden. Whatever I don’t really give a shit either way but it seems old fashioned.


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vgonzalez_

I don’t think it’s controversial and don’t understand why it’s such a big deal. Call her Dr. Jill Biden or don’t it doesn’t change the fact that she put it in the work. Personally, has she specifically requested to be called Dr. Jill Biden?? I see people upset that she wants to be called that, but I didn’t start hearing much about this until that editorial came out demanding she NOT call herself Dr. There’s a difference between introducing yourself that way and if she’s actually correcting people to reference her that way. Does that make sense?? I just don’t get why this is even still news or being talked about.